We "know" history as it was written on the books, not as it really was done on the ground. Add the MSM bias and, Presto! We are all confused, bedazzled and worried. That's why is always foolish to make early decisions with few facts
I simply want you to do your own research apart from Mainstream Indoctrination. Donetsk, Odessa, Luhansk and Donbas have historical validation, values pertinent to Putin's view of Russian Nationalism.
Where exactly is the "false narrative" located in the article? The author used a direct quote of Vladimir Putin, and asked the audience to do their own research, clearly stating that we have not received the "whole story".
Please provide me that direct quote, because he never said that. I actually speak the language and know what he says and you have to listen in context too.
“Radicals and nationalists, including and primarily those in Ukraine, are taking credit for having gained independence. As we can see, this is absolutely wrong,” he says. “The disintegration of our united country was brought about by the historic, strategic mistakes on the part of Bolshevik and Soviet leaders ... the collapse of the historical Russia known as the USSR is on their conscience.”
February 21st 2022
I'm not denying what you are saying VEPR, but the author has CLEARLY WRITTEN that the audience has to do their own Research. The author wrote about EXACTLY what you wrote, in much less detail
Always open to different views or knowledge about anything I don't know. Please expand on what was historically wrong with the article which brought forth a false narrative.
In 89, there was agreement between Gorbachev and NATO that NATO wouldn't move an inch to Russia border if Soviets pulls forces from East Germany. But, when Russia was broke and the military was in shambles, NATO expanded Poland, Czech, and Hungary in 90s. Ignoring another agreement signed in 97. 9 joined in 2000s, 3 more in 2010s and one 2020. In 2007 USA put missile system in Romania and Poland close to Russia border claiming that its for middle east lol. Russia warned that Ukraine and Georgia is red line and will go to war if they become NATO. 2013 and 2014 Ukraine had maidan, which is revolution backed and financed by USA and with help of Azov battalion which are literal neonazis. But US don't care because we want to get close to Russia. In 2014 after Maidan there were counter protests by people who spoke Russian or support good relations with Russia. Poroshenko(former president of Ukraine) send azovs quesh the protests. They used violence, and in Odessa, they burned protest in union building to death and who tried to escape would get beaten and shot. Authorities stood and watched, wonder why. Azov battalion became official unit in Ukrainian military in 5 may 2014. What country have open Neonazis in military and government? Ukraine. Ukraine made few laws like forbidding people to speak russian in public places. People in Donbass and Lugansk started to protest that and ousting of democratically elected president. Poroshenko send Azovs to deal with them, but it end up fight and DNK and LGK took arms and had referrendum to leave Ukraine. Poroshenko send military. He called them terrorists. Military not just attacked the militia but bombed civilian cities, hospitals, schools. In 2015 with Russia, belorussia, USA, Germany and Ukraine and leaders of the regions Minsk peace accords were signed. But Ukraine never implemented, they wanted them full back, since they can't join NATO if they have civil war or autonomous regions. Every year Ukrainian military kept inching close and closer to DNK and LGK. And after 8 years of bombinng 14000 dead, Russia had enough. It gave ultimatum to NATO and NATO ignored. Didn't help that a year ago Ukraine put NATO accesion in their constitution. So its not just ambition to as you mentioned in article but survival.
Don't care to get into the mix of replies and comments. Not at this juncture. Pretty much everything needing brought to light, has been. Great article and compelling, noncontentious conversations. Platform courtesy of The Second Press.
That last quote by Jefferson says it all! Unfortunately, the left, the gun-grabbers, the woke, the liberals, the fascists et al. just don't get it. Need to continue to do all things possible to "hopefully" bring them the light!
What a tedious, uphill battle this has been and will continue to be, ad nauseum and ad finitum.
Russia have plenty of lands. If they wanted more, in 1991 when Soviet Union broken up, Russia could have claimed back lands from Kiev to lugansk since thats where Russian Empire was before Lenin decided to give to Ukraine SSR. Ukraine was just west of Ukraine and if you translate it means borderland. It was buffer between Russian Empire and Polish Empire. They fought each other few times
We "know" history as it was written on the books, not as it really was done on the ground. Add the MSM bias and, Presto! We are all confused, bedazzled and worried. That's why is always foolish to make early decisions with few facts
Excellent piece of work. Very telling of what is going on, and alot to think about.
Unfortunately article is not accurate historically and provides false narrative why war actually started
I simply want you to do your own research apart from Mainstream Indoctrination. Donetsk, Odessa, Luhansk and Donbas have historical validation, values pertinent to Putin's view of Russian Nationalism.
Where exactly is the "false narrative" located in the article? The author used a direct quote of Vladimir Putin, and asked the audience to do their own research, clearly stating that we have not received the "whole story".
Please provide me that direct quote, because he never said that. I actually speak the language and know what he says and you have to listen in context too.
“Radicals and nationalists, including and primarily those in Ukraine, are taking credit for having gained independence. As we can see, this is absolutely wrong,” he says. “The disintegration of our united country was brought about by the historic, strategic mistakes on the part of Bolshevik and Soviet leaders ... the collapse of the historical Russia known as the USSR is on their conscience.”
February 21st 2022
I'm not denying what you are saying VEPR, but the author has CLEARLY WRITTEN that the audience has to do their own Research. The author wrote about EXACTLY what you wrote, in much less detail
Always open to different views or knowledge about anything I don't know. Please expand on what was historically wrong with the article which brought forth a false narrative.
Liked your commentary...unfortunately there's always going to be trolls.
In 89, there was agreement between Gorbachev and NATO that NATO wouldn't move an inch to Russia border if Soviets pulls forces from East Germany. But, when Russia was broke and the military was in shambles, NATO expanded Poland, Czech, and Hungary in 90s. Ignoring another agreement signed in 97. 9 joined in 2000s, 3 more in 2010s and one 2020. In 2007 USA put missile system in Romania and Poland close to Russia border claiming that its for middle east lol. Russia warned that Ukraine and Georgia is red line and will go to war if they become NATO. 2013 and 2014 Ukraine had maidan, which is revolution backed and financed by USA and with help of Azov battalion which are literal neonazis. But US don't care because we want to get close to Russia. In 2014 after Maidan there were counter protests by people who spoke Russian or support good relations with Russia. Poroshenko(former president of Ukraine) send azovs quesh the protests. They used violence, and in Odessa, they burned protest in union building to death and who tried to escape would get beaten and shot. Authorities stood and watched, wonder why. Azov battalion became official unit in Ukrainian military in 5 may 2014. What country have open Neonazis in military and government? Ukraine. Ukraine made few laws like forbidding people to speak russian in public places. People in Donbass and Lugansk started to protest that and ousting of democratically elected president. Poroshenko send Azovs to deal with them, but it end up fight and DNK and LGK took arms and had referrendum to leave Ukraine. Poroshenko send military. He called them terrorists. Military not just attacked the militia but bombed civilian cities, hospitals, schools. In 2015 with Russia, belorussia, USA, Germany and Ukraine and leaders of the regions Minsk peace accords were signed. But Ukraine never implemented, they wanted them full back, since they can't join NATO if they have civil war or autonomous regions. Every year Ukrainian military kept inching close and closer to DNK and LGK. And after 8 years of bombinng 14000 dead, Russia had enough. It gave ultimatum to NATO and NATO ignored. Didn't help that a year ago Ukraine put NATO accesion in their constitution. So its not just ambition to as you mentioned in article but survival.
Don't care to get into the mix of replies and comments. Not at this juncture. Pretty much everything needing brought to light, has been. Great article and compelling, noncontentious conversations. Platform courtesy of The Second Press.
That last quote by Jefferson says it all! Unfortunately, the left, the gun-grabbers, the woke, the liberals, the fascists et al. just don't get it. Need to continue to do all things possible to "hopefully" bring them the light!
What a tedious, uphill battle this has been and will continue to be, ad nauseum and ad finitum.
Thanks Rufus, once again.
Russia have plenty of lands. If they wanted more, in 1991 when Soviet Union broken up, Russia could have claimed back lands from Kiev to lugansk since thats where Russian Empire was before Lenin decided to give to Ukraine SSR. Ukraine was just west of Ukraine and if you translate it means borderland. It was buffer between Russian Empire and Polish Empire. They fought each other few times